A Gardeners Forum Forums General Discussion Landscape trials and triumphs Would like some thoughts and general info...

We have flower beds along the front of the house and the one side of the house....also in the back, but I'm moving that one eventually so the dogs don't kill that one. All of the beds are very rectangular....they come out from the house about 18-24 inches and are straight all the way across. I am not one for these rectangular beds....like the wavy-ish ones...do you know what I mean???? Right now the beds have large wood chips in them. The bed in the front of the house is pretty much full shade and the one along the side of the house is much full sun. With fall coming, I'd like to prepare these beds for next spring as much as I can. I do not know what I want to plant in them yet tho. The bed along the side of the house that is full sun already has some plants that I will be keeping....rose bushes, bleeding hearts (which I'm surprised are even living in the full sun), and some others that i can't remember off the top of my head right now (soooo tired). Ok, so what do I do right now? Do I remove the wood chips (I really hate wood chips, btw)? Do I let them alone? Do I start to dig out the shape that I want the beds to be? Do I just measure the beds and start sketching? What do I do!??? I'll be saving money until spring when I'll buy the plants (not from seed as I totally stink at growing things from seed). This is really the first time ever that I'm going to get to actually plan and do flower beds and I'm soooooooo excited!!! If I can get my money to stretch far, I'll be able to also put beds on the other side of the house that is full shade!! I'm soooooo excited!! I can't wait for the seed catalogs to come even tho I'm not planting seeds! I LOVE to look at the pictures and info on the plants!

If you go with wavy, remember to make gentle curves that a mower can follow. Otherwise you end up with unmowable places that never look tidy.
Are these beds edged with anything? Bricks, rocks or wood for instance? Or are they just where the grass stops and the mulch begins?
If they are the latter then you can start a lasagna garden in the area you want to curve out. Shallow half circles that will kill off the grass for you. (no digging required). There are some threads about it around here somewhere. I am lousy at digging up the old threads like that.
Don't remove the bark until spring. It will help keep the plants that are there healthier and a more even temperature. You can move some of the plants from the back yard that you want to save into the front too. That will save you some pennies as you expand.
I'm sure you will get more ideas from your friends here.

Anyone know where past posts on lasagna gardening can be found? O have any better ideas? Bumping for Jenn.

Thanks tina...the beds right now are lined with some kind of hard plastic edge that goes down maybe 4 inches. I'm pretty sure it is edging both beds. The bed in the front has nothing in it at all as far as plants.....just a layer of bark (ick). I do remember seeing threads about lasagna gardening at one point. I had thought about making a circle garden in the middle of our front yard with that, actually, and had forgotten to mention that in my post. We supposedly have a hold for a flag pole somewhere in our front yard. It is supposed to be 12" away from the 7th stone in our walkway. We have never found it! I'm going to have to find someone with a metal detector I think. If it truly is only 12" away from the walk way, I'm not sure if I will do the circle garden. I am going to go out and take pictures of the beds so you can see everything I'm talking about and you can give me ideas...

Most of the plastic edging is bendable. So you might be able to restructure that to your curves and just add to it for length.
And I like bark, I need to add. What kind of mulching would you plan on doing instead?

OK...hang around for like 5 minutes if you can...I'm just uploading pics to PB to post for you.

And I was wrong....the edging is a wooden edging. The plastic edging is on 1 or 2 small areas on the side. Give me a few minutes to post pics for you...

Well, I agree, you need some curves. Do be careful that you can mow along those curves. So many people end up unhappy with the effects when they find they can't mow. And save those landscape logs for building your kid's sandbox around back. Or to start your compost bin(s). Recycle.
I would lay out and start building lasagna beds any time now and they should be good to go next spring.
Shrubbery trimming and tree trimming will show your neighbors that you are working on it. And make that above mentioned mowing a little less deadly. Toss everything into the compost pile in an out of the way corner, including the bark you don't care for.
Dreaming, planning and taking cuttings to root should keep you plenty busy. I know you have masses of excess time on your hands.

Well, the tree trimming issue is in another thread...still waiting on instructions on that as we've never had a tree to trim before! As for the trimming of the shrubs...the rhododendron are just wayyyy over grown. Personally, I don't care much for them, but they weren't as messy as I thought they would be, so if I can trim them down to a tolerable size then i'll keep them there. Does it matter when I trim them? I'm going to be trimming them way down...probably to where there isn't much foliage...does it matter that I'll be doing this in the middle of August? The one towards the rear of the house will be left larger than the other one because of privacy...although I'm not really sure if I need it for privacy since the porch back there has lattice all the way around it. Anyways, the other one will be trimmed dramatically because next year I want to put Boston Fern in hanging baskets between each of the porch posts and I'd like to be able to see the baskets hanging back there!

OK, the comment about the "less deadly" mowing. Is that because the grass is brown? Because STephen mowed it extra short so that I wouldn't have to mow it the first week of him being gone. It isn't usually that short. Also, is there something that I can either water the grass with or sprinkle on the grass to get it to grow thicker and greener? I'm not worried about conserving water...we have a well and what water is used for watering the grass just goes right back into the well. Having mentioned that, is something that I'm going to use on the lawn going to go into the well and make the water yucky? We don't have a filter that I know of...although we do use the Brita filter pitcher for drinking the water. Not all of our grass is grass. There is some sort of leafy stuff growing in the grass....how do I get rid of that and get grass?

I need to measure behind the garage to see if we have room for a compost pile. If not, I really don't have anywhere else to put a composting pile....well...maybe on the other side of the house, but it doesn't get any sun...does that matter? At our other house, my compost bin was basically a box made out of pallets and that is what I was planning on doing again. Do I put the grass clippings in that as well? Will the grass clippings overwhelm the compost pile?

If I'm doing curvy beds along the house (which I would like to do) what should I do next to the walk way to the house. I think I'd really like to do some sort of beds on the sides of the walk...altho that may be something for the following year because I think I'm going to have my hands full with just the beds around the house. But hey, I can ask and decide later, right?? :)

For lasagna beds, would I need to plant those this fall??? We don't have any money budgeted for the flower beds this fall....I can't do anything as far as spending money until spring when I've saved up. Right now we have our kitchen remodel, bedroom decorating, and electrical rewiring taking up all of our budgeted monies. ...cause ya know, I'm not busy enough as it is with those things going on PLUS the kids...I want to add flower beds into the mix.

Lasagna beds. They may not cost money depending on the area you live in. What you want is chicken poo enough to put a layer down over the area you want to turn into a flower bed. It will kill off the grass then you want a layer of cardboard (no holes peaking through at all) covering the same space. Then you want 2 inch layers of grass interspersed with 4 inch layers of leaves. If you put it down now you should be able to plant in spring 2009.

Roddys can't be pruned except right after they bloom in the spring. If you do it at any other time you will take off the buds for the next year. I wouldn't prune heavily because you may find that the bush is bare underneath. Do it alittle at a time over a couple of years.

weed and feed is the stuff you want to spread on the grass a couple of times during the growing season to get rid of none grass type invaders into your lawn. And Grass seed in the fall is what you want to make your lawn thick. Or so I've been told. I'm trying to enhance mine too but I won't beable to buy the weed and feed or the grass seed until next year.

A lack of sun can be a good thing for the compost. It won't dry out as much or as quickly.

Grass clippings are great for compost since they get it nice and hot. To stop it from smelling as it decomposes use 25 to 50 percent grass and the rest leaves.

If you go curve around the house I would contine that pattern with the walkway. Maybe a scallop form with a half circle on one side and then one off center from that side on the other side and just continue that all the way up the walkway. That would be kind of modernistic so maybe not. Hum, Maybe just one long oval shape with the walkway in the center? I'm so not a designer.

Good luck with your renovations. Please keep me posted since we are pretty much in the same boat. Well my home repairs are far smaller than yours which is a good thing on my fixed budget but still the same types of things.

the rhodys will probably not bloom next year if you cut them back now. but then again i'd go for it anyway. now, while they have time to get over the shock before winter hits.

That's what I was thinking too, Jiffy. I don't know that I really care if they are bare next year...I mean, they'd be bare next year after I get done with them anyways.

I have a question about the rhodys also. Do ants have something to do with them like azaleas?? Because the other day I saw ants marching up and down our porch and the rhody was the only reason for that that I could think of.

I can't help you with your ants/rhodies questions. I have never grown rhodies. But I would trim them now and maybe sacrifice next years blooms.
I did want to say that my deadly mowing comment was because of the low tree branches, not the state of your lawn. I agree with Tammy, weed and feed for those none grassy things in your lawn. Be careful not to get it on your other plantings. It will kill off anything without grass type leaves and put your pansies in peril.
The tree is easy. Cut any low hanging branches that try to take your head off. Cut off any broken or dead branches. Cut any branches that are rubbing against each other. Cut for form if you want; meaning if it has an ugly branch not fitting any of the above descriptions but you don't like it, get rid of it.
When you are cutting any branches bigger than your two fingers together, You need to undercut it; meaning you go under the branch and make a shallow cut. Then you cut the branch from the top a little further out from the undercut to finish the job. That helps the branch to break off when it is time without stripping off the bark down the whole tree trunk or something.
On your sidewalk, I would put a sweeping planter on each side.
)I(
The I is the front walk and parenthesis is the basic shape of planters I am thinking of on each side. That would soften the squared off look and still maintain that smooth mowing line that I am so obsessed with.
You don't need sunlight to compost. And if you do the lasagna thing, You won't have much to compost with anyway. For a while. There are different 'recipes' for lasagna gardening that use other manure than chicken and how many inches of grass clippings and leaves. They do all call for cardboard or newspaper layers enough to block out sunlight. What you use between layers sometimes depends on what is available to you cheaply. If you live by a friendly chicken farmer that is good. If you live near a rabbit farmer that is even better. Cows and horses are your friends.
I need to go back and see if you had other things I can help with.

When pruning trees do not cut the branch flush with the tree. Leave a couple of inches of the branch.

Yes rhoddies and azaleas are closely related.

OK, that explains the ants.....I really do not like azaleas for the ant reason and there was a large bed of them in the back yard. I dug every single azalea up and gave them all away. They filled nearly an entire truck bed when MIL came to get them. I had asked her if she wanted some of them before I dug them up and she said "well, I'll take a few" I told her I was going to give them ALL to her and she'd have to find homes for them all. I didn't have time to search people out....didn't even think about posting about them on the forum and seeing if anyone wanted them. I'm not sure if that was during the 2 or 3 weeks that we didn't have internet or what. Anyways, I certainly won't mind if the rhoddies bloom next year if it means I won't have ants all over the place. That drives me NUTS!!! I may just cut the one at the middle of the house off at the ground and see what happens and then just severely trim the other one. I think I'm going to have to get the sawsall out for this job.

Ok, whose going to come visit me and help me trim the tree. I understood the word "undercut"......what is a shallow cut? I don't mind the low hanging branches. I looked at the other redbud trees around here and it seems to be a characteristic of them. I like it...and I like the shape of it. It is just too large and covers the front of the house soo much and you have to duck to get through the walkway. I'm sooo afraid of doing something wrong with the tree!!! I don't want to have to hire someone to do this as I think it is something that I can do..I just didn't understand much of what was said in the instructions, I think. I totally need "trimming trees for dummies" step by step type of deals. Like, how much can I take off at one time....will the tree look horrible because I'd be cutting the branches shorter than the leaves. There are pods hanging off of the tree right now...are those pods just seeds for the tree to porpogate, or are they important? If I trim the tree now, will it bloom in the spring? It seems to me that where the blooms were are where the leaves are now. I just don't understand how trees work, I guess.

Ok, I totally like the )I( thing for the walkway. And I am going to take some pictures of some gardens that I walk past on the way to the post office because they all have pretty much the same flowers as I have in the back yard and I think it would be nice to kind of match the other houses (even tho they are more than a block down the street). They have a bit of an unkept look, so I want to avoid that. So, after I take some pictures and load them into this thread, can you tell me what they are and if there are maybe smaller versions of them, or where you'd put them??? When I do my shopping, I'll be getting some graph paper so I can start designing the beds. I told Stephen the beds will be the big project next year.....he said "ok". I told him I would not be buying seeds (which would probably be the less expensive route) as I totally stink at growing from seed and it would be a waste of money for us. And like I said, I'm going to put boston fern in hanging baskets on the porch...one between each column.

Oh yeah...as far as lining the beds. Stephen said he does NOT want those plastic black edging things that are currently around the tree and next to some of the beds. I agree with him. They are not put in correctly right now as it is (I don't think the people knew how to use them) but it seems that they get brittle with our winters. I'm thinking maybe lining up some river rock or something? any other thoughts??

First I must say that I hate that plastic edging also, even if you put it in correctly it lifts with the frost. I like straight beds against a house)that's what I done here) then I have oddly shaped and curved ones everywhere else.

I have used flagstone pieces as edging in a few beds and the others I just trench cut in a 'V' as the edging. It's free and keeps the grass out Rock would be nice also...just remember that you'll have to use the 'weed trimmer' against those.

Oh and bark mulch also drags ants. I've learned that the hard way...now I use cedar mulch and have never had a problem since.

No advice on rhodies or azaleas though, they don't grow here.

I'm trying to think of all the questions you asked...my mind has been over questioned Just remember to take it slow and one thing at a time. you don't want to get discouraged and two babies certainly takes up any spare time you have

Oh I forgot to add, use a garden hose to lay out a curvy path where you want your beds against the house. That way you can look at it for a few days before you decide if you have the exact shape you want. You don't want to go through the trouble of removing sod then putting it back

A shallow cut means you only cut half way under the branch, it relieves any pressure from making the next cut.

You know Wal-mart used to have cheap software where you put in the pic of your house and could 'computer landscape' to get the look you wanted.

The plastic edging even gets brittle in our climate and heaves up here as well.
On the tree, I was thinking you would want it high enough for your kids to walk around without putting an eye out. And maybe to work under and for your friends to be able to walk up your walk without having their hair restyled.
I trim my redbud year round as needed(eastern redbud, yes I know I live in the west). I don't seem to lose any bloom from them.
And I rounded up my Pruning for Dummies book and copied a pic for you.

Red is the first cut.
Gray is the second cut.
And green is the final cut.
I really don't think you can mess it up much. It looks harder than it is. A pair of loppers will take care of most of the smaller branches. And you have a very hardy tree to practice on.

i'm not positive about rhodys but they are azalea cousins, and i do know azaleas. so, here is my two cents worth, and what i was getting out to start with.

generally, azaleas are cut back easy or hard right after blooming. next years blooms are set within 2 months of this year's blooming. so... because i am sure you have more than 2 months from blooming if you cut back now, you loose next years blooms. not that i consider that a drawback. just an advisement.

if you wait, the pluses are that you know what color they are going to bloom, which is important to planning the other beds, maybe; you won't necessarily lose the following year's blooms because you can prune right after blooming; and you will have had more time to "plan" the beds around them.

if you cut now, the pluses are that you get it done a very big plus; you can see how large the trunks are for real to determine if you want to just cut it down and see if it comes back or if digging up roots is in order; and you "neaten" the appearance. you also give the plant time to recover before winter.

pruning rhodys and azaleas do have one principle in order, that is the same as any other trees. branches that cross, are oddly shapen, interfere with air flow, or are generally where you don't want them.

a good heavy pair of lopers will do most of what you need done. a bow saw or pruning saw will do the rest.

more next post.

for the rest of the beds, tina has a very valid point about making sure any curves are mow aroundable. i like the )I( idea with the walk way, and have something similar myself (full of weeds ) and you can pull the curve on around the house. around here, a sort of lazy "S" is the general outside shape that is most popular. use the water hose or some rope to get it where you want it, the spray paint the grass inside the bed to mark it. look at it a couple of days and see if you like it. push the mower around the curve to try it out.

then, for edging, they now sell cedar "shingles" that are on a tape that you can use for edging. it looks pretty good, is flexible, and reasonably priced. or, you can use the scalloped topped "bricks" that are at walmart for about$1.50+/- every year. that is what i have. i set the bottom of them just under grass level.

use plastic bowls and lids to plan out the smaller plant spacing. just an idea i did when ellie was maddie's age.

i don't know how liriope grows there, but if it is hardy, it makes a good solid edging for areas that you don't want a bed, but don't want the grass to overtake the cement. i've used it lots. it does well if it is in boundarys.

more next post.

about your burn barrel. spray paint a bright color, and use for either your compost barrel, or an upright planter. put posies in the holes like a strawberry jar. or do both. it will continue to decompose, but the iron won't hurt anything and you will have a "raised" bed of somekind in the meantime.


for lasagna beds, you don't plant until the following year. first layer is cardboard or several layers of paper to strangle the grass. next layer is compost material. you build it up from there, lots of different recipes. tina is right, any grass eater's poo is your friend. spread it and let it do it's thing :)

make the top layer a straw or wood chip mulch that will "hold it all" while allowing snow to drip through as it melts. next spring, you will have a decent bed to plant in.

ok, i'm done sorry for so lengthy in my post. i've been trying to get my thoughts together for a bit now.

I like the scallop topped bricks, too. But I set them into the ground scallop down so I can run an edger along them. They come in some gentle curves too. I have river rock edging around my house mostly because it is free for the gathering. But I don't have grass. Keeping the grass from growing between can be tricky and untidy looking.
Liriope is hardy to zone 6. But it has survived a few places in lower zones.

jenn, a house next door to kate has the gently flowing beds in front of the house. i took a picture for you

thanks jiffy!!! i like that alot....although would have more flowers planted.

yes, well... but if you do the lasagna in the raised bed, by spring, it will be perfect for planting!

Oh I just love those bricks...someday maybe ...but by the time I could afford them I'd be to old to garden

jenn, you might want to consider using bricks as an edging. you can put tj=hem in at an angle so tht the edge toward the grass is flush with the gerass or yoy can simkply lay them on the ground and raise teh beds fklush with them on the indies.--and as far as muclh--I use hardwood mulch in my beds--and I have no troublwe with ants. however I do have 6-10 inches of pebbles between my mulch and my house. This is to deture termites. anf this keep doen my weeds as well.

Right now I have plastic edging in for my raised flower bed. dH says this winter they will get heaved out. so the plan i n for next summer to replace mine with either wood landscaping timbers or rock. But I am leaning toward the timbers right now.

Jiffy, I love the photo you posted of the curved flower bed edging.

We have the same, a 12 inch row of crushed rock over plastic and landscaping material...it stops the moisture against the cement as well and any grass or weeds from growing up against the house.

I love the brick-on-edge that Carol is talking about. You know I bet a person could get a great deal on those at a 'tear down' site, it wouldn't matter if some were damaged,..you could put the damaged edges into the ground.

tamara is right, I second the idea.
my friend used the brick from her grand mothere's house---and they are beautiful----you would not ever know thta they were not new----and now she has the rememberance of her family. best of all--- All it cost her was the labor.

I too have some I use as border. the deep red is actually very nice aganist the white house.

the blocks that the raised bed are made from cost about $1 a block around here during the summer. i've seen the bricks, used the bricks, and depending on how you situate the bricks can be really nice. or just functional. i've done both.

I believe there is a listing of about 1000 thin bricks in the Paper Shop right now. I will have to see where they are at and talk to Stephen about what he thinks b/c I'd have to buy them right now if I wanted them. But I don't know if I want that or not.....we'll see.

OK, so now I know how to trim the big limbs on the tree....how do I just trim like 12-18 inches off of the ends of the smaller ones? Do I just pretty much go a hacking???

Just use pruners for that Jenn.

OK....pruners....got it. Is that how I get the top of the tree to not be soo tall also???? Tam, do you know much about the redbuds? Mine has little pods hanging off of it and I haven't had time to read about this tree yet. Is it just spreading seeds? It won't hurt it if the pods come off, right?

Also, I have some cone flowers in the back, the petals are all dried up and I think the middle of it has seeds and if it gets bumped, the seeds come off. Can I collect those and try spreading them next year??

I went to the post office today and noticed they have a bin for the weekly ad paper. It is for the people who don't want it, they throw it in there and it all gets recycled. The post master said that I can take as much as I want. OK, so I'm going to use the papers to kill off the grass....how do I get the newspaper to stay in place? I'm going to go back and read this thread just in case someone told me...I really do need instructions like you would give a 2 year old. I'm completely clueless here.

ok, I think i found the answer to my newspaper question. According to an article I found, I have to layer the newspaper thick so that the sun can't get through, soak it with the hose and then put a layer of poo/compost on it. OK, so here is the question I have now. There is a farmer down the road that has some cows, so I am going to ask about getting poo from him....also, we know of a person that has chickens (we know them because the dogs got ahold of 3 of their chickens a few weeks ago ) so do I just put the cardboard and/or newspaper down, wet it, and then just put the poo on top of it? The article didn't say anything about mulch or anything on top of it. Can I maybe just use all of the "waste" from trimming the tree.....or will those pod that are on the tree make baby trees that I'm not going to want? Can I just let the poo on the top and not worry about it? What about maybe mixing the poo with the grass clippings as if these new beds were just composting piles (i wouldn't be adding poo to the compost piles tho, I guess???). Ok, Maddie is just waking up so I'm going to grab her and take her out and work on something while I wait for an answer.

Pruning shears or loppers for the small stuff.
The pods are seed pods. It won't hurt anything if they come off.
The coneflower seeds can be collected and sown any time. (think about it. Mother Nature is sowing them now). Or they can be stored for later sowing or sharing.
The idea of lasagna gardening is layering, like lasagna. Paper, manure, grass, leaves, more paper between any of these if you like. The mix doesn't matter much as long as paper or cardboard start on the bottom and choke the grass/weeds under the mix. The smaller twigs of your redbud would also work. And when it loses its leaves, they go on. If seeds start growing, they will be very, very easy to pull up so don't worry about the seed pods.
Your neighbors might be happier with you if you are able to cover the manure used asap, with whatever your next layer is. Specially if it is fresh.
Lasagna is a compost pile in layers that you don't stir up until next spring. When you dig it all in.
And the last, manure in a regular compost pile is an awesome addition.

cool...ok, stephen said the chicken guy had his chickens running all over the place so collecting their poo probably wouldn't be easy. But then he reminded me that we have a lady in our church who has a horse farm and that maybe I can get poo from her for free. I'm going to talk to her at church on Sunday. Will horse poo work?? I guess they eat grass...I'm not really knowledgeable in the horse area.....just bull. no..really...would horse poo do? I finally got the walk trimmed and now that stephen is home to watch the kids I can do the tree some and the rhodies.

horse poo is great. works very well, but you have to get it now to get it aged enough to not burn the plants.

ok...I'll talk to her this Sunday and get a move on.

I have run into a problem with the rhodies. There is a bird's nest right where I want to cut with that bush. I got the bush that is closest to the front of the house trimmed to about 4 feet or so and was going to do the same with the second bush. I have about 2/3 of the second bush done and now I see this nest. Do I just keep going or do I wait? there are no babies...no eggs (I think it would be too late for that anyways). I'm not even sure if the bird would come back to the nest if it was occupied anyways as there is no coverage for the nest. It's right out in the open now because I didn't see it until I was right on top of it. A quick answer would be great.

OK, can I put these rhody trimmings on top of the poo???? There is a TON of them!!! I'll take pictures tonight of what I've done so far. While I'm waiting on an answer, I'll take care of a limb or two on the tree. :)

no babies, no eggs, cut away.

it will be fine. and yes, you can.

put the cuttings on top of the poo. helps if i finish my thoughts

Thanks Jiffy. I trimmed 3 limbs off of the tree and then shaped a bit at the walkway so we don't whack our heads anymore. I ran out of daylight to finish the rhodies, so i'll work on that on Sunday if I have time...I have a meeting after church and need to make sure all of Stephen's laundry is done by the time he needs to leave to go to training again. So the rhody may have to wait until Monday...oh well. :) It isn't going anywhere.

You know what annoys me? People in this town are nosy....that doesn't bother. Its when they come up to me and say "oh, your cutting the rhodies down? They are just soo pretty". No I'm trimming them so I can at least SEE my house....if you want them to be 8-10 feet tall, then you can pay my mortgage!!! for more of this rant, see my blog. Anyways, I don't care what people think. A 10 foot tall bush isn't a bush any longer...it's a freakin' TREE!

jenn, i understand... and a funny for you. when we lived in fl, there was a house that had azaleas on their fence that were literally at tall as the roof of their house. they totally obliterated the view of the road from inside, and you couldn't even tell there was a house behind them if you didn't look in the driveway.

after about 4 years (we lived there 5) the owners cut them back. HARD! cathy (i think that was her name ) said that people would be out walking by and walk up and knock on her door to introduce themselves to the "new neighbors"

they bloomed just fine the next year

LOL!!!! Now THAT is funny!!!! I don't even care if they don't bloom next year. I think the one closest to the front of the house will bloom a little....there was still foliage after I trimmed....the other one, tho, I doubt it. To be honest, I don't even know how the heck the other one will even make new foliage!!! I guess out of the spots that I cut at????? How does that work? And if there are no foliage and the limbs are basically just sticks coming out of the ground, should I trim it lower so that what IS new growth won't make the bush larger than I want it?? How exactly does this work?

OK, another question...not sure if I should just keep it in this thread or make a new one in the gardening in the shade area. There are bleeding hearts planted on that side of the house...in full sun. I don't even know why you'd do that. Anyways, I'm sure the sun just totally burned them. They did grow and they did actually bloom, but the stems of them are completely yellow and feel hollow if I pinch them. Do you think they'd make it if I transplanted them to the front where I have shade. I know that in the fall they just get trimmed and stuff, but do you think the root system would be fine? They might need to get moved again in the spring, but at least they wouldn't be in the full sun and I'd know where they were next year (because I wouldn't remember exactly where they were if I waited until next spring....heck, I can't even remember what I did this morning!!!)

Are you all tired of my questions yet? Let me just tell you how good it feels to be able to go out there and work in the gardens and such. I missed that soooooo much!

tired of you? never!

i'm going to answer the bleeding heart question first. i've never grown them, BUT, i'd say the full sun for now would offer them some protection from winter so i'd just wait and move them in the spring. although, someone who grows them up north will probably say opposite

as for the "sticks" they will either put out side shoots from those sticks (happens all the time) or they will put up new growth from the root set. when they start to come out, you will have time to know which and make the appropriate alterations to your cuts. unfortunately, i can't remember which they do.

LOL....I'll wait on the bleeding hearts for now then. I'm not going to be able to work on anything until at least Monday, I think , anyways. Thinking about this weekend, I'm almost sure of that now.

Well, I'm going to take a shower and head off to bed. We're both pretty tired right now. He was up at 5:30 this morning to clean their dorm room and then had a test (he got a 94% on it) and then had to go a long way home because he had to stop at the prison he will be working at for his "official" ID badge (ooohhhh....ahhhhhhh ). I'm going to ask him to feed the baby and put him to bed for me so that we can go to bed earlier. I'm exhausted!!!

Thanks soo much, everyone, for all of the advise. I'm soo glad I found this wonderful place over 4 years ago! I love Bill for putting up with all of us and for having it for us!

yes, there is that!

and i'm glad you found here too, 'cause that's how i found you

ok, i knew i would get more info after i posted this. move them now. from what i can tell, they will do better sheltered over the winter in the spot they will thrive in in the summer. so, since they are part shade plants, moving them now is the way to go

So, the shower made me feel better and I thought I'd get onto the forum one last time tonight.

Ok, then I will totally plan on moving them next week. Over the weekend, I'm hoping to play with planning on what plants to put in the beds. I probably won't actually sit and think about where to put them, but I think I will come up with a list and then will email Stephen's uncle (who happens to own the largest greenhouse in the state...how convenient!!!) and ask if the plants I want are ones that he usually carries. Maybe he will give his niece a discount. Even if he doesn't, I still would like to give him the business. :) ...I'm nice like that.

nice. showers are good, moving plants can be fun, and your own family accessible commercial green house, how much better can it get?

Be careful with the bleeding hearts Jenn, they have very briitle roots and are fussy on being moved. Take and dig a large clump around them, don't separate the dirt from the roots...just plunk it back in the ground.

okie-dokie. I think I knew that the roots were brittle. I had ordered some from a catalog and they all came wrapped in damp papertowels and cushioned in newspapers and such.

Alrighty....horse poo acquired. Well, not totally. I talked to the lady who has horses and she said she just emptied "the pit" but she had enough to fill the bed of the truck, so I will go get that this week. She also has some barn beams that she doesn't need anymore and has offered them to us for our kitchen! Yay!!!! So, today Stephen is going to help me measure the yard and stuff so that I can work on plans and such so that I know where to put the poo. I had a dream lastnight about the garden and that it will eventually be the entire yard. I don't know how realistic that is, but Stephen wouldn't have any grass to mow at least then. ANYWAYS, I'm thinking plants that attract butterflies and humming birds. They seem to have some wonderful color and don't seem to need alot of tending to. I did see a hummer or two this spring here, so I know they are around. I am going to have to get a feeder for the garden and I think I will use a shepherd's hook thinger to hang it from. When I get the measurements done and a basic layout of the garden (stage 1 ) I'll post it in this thread with some ideas of where to put what plants. I will need opinions from you all since you all know soo much more than I do. :) i can't wait until next spring!!! I hope we are able to save up enough money for the plants that I'd like!

Oh, update on the bird's nest. There were a couple dried up rhodie leaves in the nest, so I decided to watch those for any sign of a bird. Nothing. The leaves have been in the exact same place since Friday and we weren't home yesterday to disturb any birds, so I think it is pretty safe to assume that the nest is unoccupied. I was going to go ahead and trim away as Jiffy had suggested, but I was curious to know if there was a bird living in the nest.

it is really too late in the year for an active nest. so not surprised. as for your shepherds hooks, i got a bunch this time of year on clearance from big lots/odd lots and the family/general dollar stores.

Ah! Good to know! I am not sure that I'll be allowed to get any right now tho. We still have another 2 weeks of no income until Stephen gets his first check.

they'll be on sale from not until they are gone. i bought them though that time.

Alrighty...here is what I've come up with for the beds. Below the photo is an explanation...


The green circles are trees/shrubs that can't be moved because they are too large. The grey upside down T shape at the bottom is our walkway. Ok, at the bottom, the beds on either side of the path that goes to our house from the sidewalk....the beds start 7 1/2 feet from the corner of the path/sidewalk. Do you see the little measurement lines on either side of the path that are in line with the tree's trunk? Ok, those are measuring the thinnest part of the beds....3 feet deep. The rest of the drawing of the beds are less exact and I basically drew them where I think i'd like them. They, to me, are less important than the main arcs on either side of the walk. I would like them as symmetrical as I can get them until they each need to sweet out at different angles to follow the house and such. On the left, the bush at the corner of the porch is a burning bush. Notice how the bed just kind of stops after going around it? That is where I'm stopping for this year. Next fall I will most likely extend that bed around that side of the house. So what do you all think? I think I really like it. I know that the wave across the front of the house (near the tree) seems a little sharp and will most likely be hard to mow....I'm going to be doing the garden hose thing out there to iron that out, but I just wanted to draw as my brain was going. Everything else seems ok tho....I think. But I need other experienced eyes to look at it. By the way, this photo IS to scale.

I love the look. I think that will look fantastic.

The plan looks great Jenn.

Oh, leave that horse 'poo' age Jenn, if it's fresh it's gonna burn your plants and fill your yard with weeds....trust me, I know been there, done that.

The poo isn't totally fresh and she has it mixed with some hay. She says there are a couple of other people who do the same thing with their gardens and the say if leaves the soil sweet...so that is good I think.

Yup, but hay has seeds...trust me on that one. Your gonna have to leave it compost itself for a long long while.

If it's just sitting where the beds are going to be with bark and leaves on top of it, won't it compost itself?? I was under the impression that is what it would do? I'm not going to turn it all until next spring.

Oh yes, it'll compost itself...i thought you were going to add it to existing beds.. sorry for the misunderstanding.

It's just last year DH added manure to my veggie garden that wasn't composted. Well it composted itself alright with tons of hay seeds and such as well.

OK! Whew! There are some existing plants where the beds are going to be, but I am going to keep the poo away from those plants. I knew that it would burn them until it all broke down.

Although, I'm thinking about this now....there is English Ivy planted around one of the rhodies. I HATE ivy and it is sooooo hard to get rid of! Do you think just maybe the fresh poo will burn it to death and since it wouldn't get sun, it wouldn't come back??????? What do you think?

either that or the fresh poo will make that invasive vine stronger. I've been trying to kill Goutweed here for years....not even chemicals does it in.

I know English Ivy is nearly impossible to get rid of. I read once that the second anything harmful to it is introduced, that it goes into "hibernation" until it is safe again...which is why bleach, fire, and chemicals don't work on it. And the vine is brittle, so when you try to pull it out the roots snap off and stay there. I hate it with a passion.

english ivy LIKES shade.

it may like shade, but does it like total darkness??? Say 3-4 inches of poo?

I don't know, but I had some come back this year. It had been dormant for at least 2 years. :neenee
I like the english ivy. I haven't had a problem with it being invasive. but, I kinda put it where nothing much grows anyway.
good luck.

Thanks. We had it at our last house and it tried to take over everything. I felt like it was a losing battle. It had climbed about 30 feet of one of our large pines. Now it is someone else's problem....good luck to them!

I know it can lay dormant for a LONG time. But I'm also hoping that I'll be able to catch it quickly if most of it is gone.

Well, poo.....I have to wait until tomorrow to get my poo and according to the weather channel, we're going to have showers all morning long. Boo! What a bummer.

On the brighter side, I finished trimming the rhodies today and trimmed the tree as much as I could. I discovered that a bush I have on the front corner of the house is another burning bush and it needs trimmed horribly, but I'm going to wait until after the leaves turn red cause I think it's soo pretty. The burning bush in the back yard has already started turning red.

Ok, so earlier in this thread it was said that I could use the trimmings to put on top of the poo once it's spread. Ummmmm...do I just go and chop it all up and then put it on top???? How do I do that with the larger trimmings from say, the tree and such?

Well, got the poo and got it unloaded today. The truck is a mess! I tried to hose it off, but I'm afraid I'm going to do something wrong, so it'll have to get cleaned off this weekend while Stephen is home. The pile of poo is near our fence and the dogs are very interested in it (big surprise there). I'm hoping to get the poo distributed over the weekend...although they are calling for rain tomorrow. It hasn't rained for about 2 weeks and NOW it is going to rain. ..figures.

Compost decomposes faster if each piece is about 1 inch in size. Larger pieces take longer.

Putting tree stems in compost is to help aireate(sp) the pile. That way the organisms that help break it down can get all over it and break it down faster.

I lay my sticks at the bottom of the pile in a cross hatch pattern so that it creates like a sieve pattern. That way the materal that breaks down falls through. And I follow Jiffy's advice with no sticks larger around than my baby finger.

If you have a bunch of branches you may want to rent a wood chipper and then either use the resulting chips as mulch or add them to the compost pile. In either case they do a good job.