A Gardeners Forum Forums General Discussion The Food Garden Forum Vegetable Gardening bunch of veggie questions

I am finally going to get to start planting here in MN on Wednesday. We had a snowstorm on Fri/Sat believe it or not! Earliest freeze ever last Sept 15th and the latest snow ever this year on the 26th! (not historical -just my opinion )
So a few little questions:
How do you plant your potatoes? Do you cut them and dry 24 hours and then do you plant more than one chunk per hill? or do you use one whole tater in each hill? I just want some opinions. I don't see why cutting and then putting more than one chunk in is needed.

Do melons taste like what they are planted by? I heard that and want to make sure they won't be too close to the onions. They are planned to go somewhat near broccoli, corn, peppers and taters.

Has anyone used corn gluten in their veg garden to prevent weed germination? I usually use preen but want to be more organic. I need some specifics on it.

This year I am again using sunflowers as a support for my cucumbers. It works pretty well if you don't have supports for vining cucs. The only problems are some fungal stuff is possible and the cuc leaves look just like the sunflowers and it makes the cucs hard to pick. Anyone else do this? I read it in a companion planting book.

Corn: should I do 3 or 4 plantings of corn? And any ideas for making it less labor intensive?

Thanks all!

Wow I thought somebody would of jumped in on this already. Can't help with all your questions but I can help with a few. I feel your pain about this MN weather. I don't have snow down here but the cold & frost in the ground drive me crazy. Just warm up already.

I've always cut up seed potatoes so that at least one eye is exposed. I too wait a day before planting(I think you can even dust them in sulfer after cutting-I never have) and I find it easier to just run a trench with the hoe as deep as you can get along the entire row and just go back putting a cut eye about every foot or so. I don't plant as deep as some would in a hill but I do cover with a good layer of straw after planting.

Having done corn both ways I found it easier to just buy different maturites (about 7 days apart) of corn and plant it all at the same time. Its worked out pretty good, its never perfect and some will overlap or you might go week without but I like all the stalks growing together.

Good luck I'm itch to plant too, splerged and bought and earthway seeder this year. Our garden is just to big and I'm short on time!

Good advice, soilmover, you can plant different varieties of corn with different maturity dates, but the main issue with sweetcorn is with pollination...you don't want supersweet pollinated with standard sweetcorn...I don't claim to know much about it. You can plant the same type in several plantings over several weeks if time is an issue. You need to plant in hills or rows for proper pollination...
I have only grown potatoes in rows, as well, large seed potatoes are cut because you get similar results to whole potatoes...you'll get good production from whole or part, as long as there are eyes, but you can get more plants by cutting large potaotes if that's what you buy...the drying process helps avoid disease pathogens. Some varieties are sold as fingerlings, very small tubers, and they recommend you don't cut them...these are mostly premium varieties, mailorder types that are only an inch or two long.

I believe I'd keep the melons away from the peppers for sure.
I've heard of planting the corn, with the squash...and with something else? they call it the 'three ladies'. I thought that was a great idea. I can't do it here. too many deer. just can't keep them away from the corn without a high fence.

Good catch Dave! I forgot all about the supersweets rule of cross pollination. I don't grow them so I forgot, but I know not everyone else feels the same way. If I remember right the cross pollination makes the corn starchy.

I think the older kinds are pretty good, Iocheif, Golden Bantam, NK199, Country Gentleman and some of the newer ones like Fleet & Trinity.

Hmm lots to think about! :wink:
I think I will go ahead and plant one tater in each hole. The fingerlings I bought said they have so many eyes you can cut them but I don't see why you would. The more eyes per hole the bigger the plant.

I am growing the local feed store variety corn called ambrosia. Does anyone know about it? Corn seed is too pricey to buy anywhere else. I need 2.5 pounds of seed. That is why I was going to do successive plantings. If I don't like that variety (I'll be angry!) I'll have to try something else next year.

What if the melons are closest to the bell peppers but the hot peppers are further away? I mean the melons have to be 'next to' something. I wish I could post my garden plan and see what comments it would get.
Ok I drew up my plan pretty much. Here it is!



Of course this is just a sketch. Any suggestions before I plant?

depending on where the sun is---place the squash , cukes, etc so the corn shades them in the afternoon. youor melons could be planted IN the corn rows to help shade them--or at very least so they too will be shaded from the afternoon sun.

Tomatoes by the green peppers.

hebs together, in a permanent bed because many if not all will likey come back next year.

I wish you the very best of luck!!!

I don't know if that's superstition or not, I don't see how it could affect taste, but it could be an issue if they have similar insect pests.
I've heard great results with corn gluten, but it seems it doesn't work with some weeds...the good thing is that it's a very good fertilizer, regardless...but in my area, it's very expensive if it only served as a fertilizer...about 20 dollars for 20 pounds, I think that only treats 1,000 square feet. I wasn't willing to use it if it didn't control the weeds I have...I should do a test, I guess.

if they are in the same family you can get some taste problems. I believe it's the melons and the tomatoes that are closely enough related to be a problem.

Wow it is funny how there are different rumors out there. I have heard peppers and tomatoes should be separated and I have heard the opposite.
BUT I didn't realize the cucurberts need afternoon shade. I already planned my greens to be well shaded and I guess the summer squash will be shaded by the tomatoes but the melons I moved to be away from the cucs and squash you see. So what about the melons? Will they be too sunny?
I guess I start my plan with 1) what needs soaker hoses and what can be watered overhead and 2) that onions and peas should be apart.
I need to know where to put dill. I hate actually planting it because it is like shallots- you can never get rid of it! But still I want some to sell. I thought it wasn't supposed to be by peas. Any ideas where it should go?
Also I am only planting annual herbs at the field. The perennial ones are at home, except for parsley which is biennial.

Also I should put directions on my plot above. The corn end is pretty much north and the onion side is pretty much east.

Well I am off to plant onions, potatoes, broccoli, peas and carrots etc today. We are expecting light snow and cold again this weekend! So I am waiting on the greens (meaning lettuces, napa, bok choy, broccoli rabe and scallions). I have a fabulous day to plant today!
Thanks for all the help! It is awesome to be able to work all this out.

well I guess it could depend on your weather.---I had trouble with my vines dying out before the fruit was fully matured--and the only thing it could have been was heat---and around here--in IL, the farmers often plant their melons IN the corn rows so as to protect them from the sun---that and much water seemed to help me. cukes seems to be delicate too--so I always tried to shade them as well.

dill should not be by carrots...according to my 'companionate herbal for the organic garden' sheet.

Isn't it funny how dill shouldn't be by carrots but it is often served on carrots?

I guess my question about potatoes is just out of curiosity. If you cut your potatoes into chunks with 2-3 eyes each do YOU put one chunk in each hole or more than one? I always used to put more than one chunk per hole, then I thought why bother cutting them? The potato farms by me were planting today and they plant whole potatoes, one per hole. That is what I did.

Corn gluten: I bought corn gluten at the feed store. It is sold as a cattle feed and is $20 for 50#. I haven't figured out what I am going to do with it yet. I need to read up. If I use it like Preen I will wait to put it on until everything has germinated. That will be early June. Otherwise I could put it on certain areas (like onions and potatoes for now) and hope it doesn't cause a lack of germination in the seeded areas.

I dug up more volunteer garlic and shallots today to transplant to the field and there were actually scallions that overwintered!

Oh I am thinking about that melons and corn together thing. How exactly does it work?

Here is some info on corn gluten.
cgm


Also I found one deer's tracks near my field and some other little critter's tracks like a coon or something. And there are crows about. So I am going to try to make a scarecrow and try to use my motion detector sprinkler if they will let me keep the water pump always on. Or maybe the pressure left in the hose would be enough to make it spray once.

I just made a hill in the row between the rows of corn--then I put down dry grass aorund where the melons would grow---because you will not be able to hoe between the corn rows where the melon is growing.

I guess you could NOT plant corn one or 2 places in the row & relace them with melon seeds--then just make sure you know where your runners go off to.--I ALWAYS put dry grass (or you could use straw) under my melon plants--well for that matter I put it around my tomatoes, & peppers, cukes--etc. it not only holds in the moisture, it keeps down weeds---and it does the ground good for the next year---

I never grown Ambrosia, but I see it in my catalog. Sounds good: Sugar enhanced variety, Bi color, medium maturity (75 days),8 inch ear, 16 rows, Sister variety to Bodacious. I grew Bodacious a few years back and it was good from what I remember-I've tried to many others since.

I sure hope you don't have any racoons in your area, they are my worst sweet corn enemy. Regular fencing wouldn't keep them away no matter how hard we tried the one year. They ate about a total of 300 feet of sweet corn rows that year. They are pigs! What they don't eat, they break off-looks like a darn tornado went through the patch! Battery powered Electric fence keeps the patch safe now.

Moles got my corn most years---early on--I had next to none even come up.

I eventually gave up completely--bought my corn from road side stands to put up.

Ugh those darn coon! I think maybe the tracks were smaller. Today a little "stripey" was watching me. I mean a gopher- a Minnesota Gopher he he. What will they eat of mine?

It seems like in this area it isn't too hot for melons. From what I have been reading they need dark plastic mulch. I read to use dark mulch on sweet potatoes and melons for sure. I worry about that increasing fungus and disease.

So about straw. Does everyone think straw or mulch is a good idea? I think I will use straw or free mulch quite a bit. I didn't like introducing it at home but in the field it shouldn't be so bothersome.

I use the straw around potatoes, and in between rows of beans, peas an carrots. I started growing white clover in between rows of sweet corn, and around pumpkins 2 years ago. Its supposed to be good for the soil when plowed/tilled under at the end of the season, doesn't get very tall, and can handle moderate foot traffic. Both are good at keeping weeds down and you don't have to remove them at the end of the season. I like a mulch that can be plowed under. When you get big its usually $$ that guides your choices. I found both of the above to be relatively inexpensive and effective.

Good lord!! This is all too darn complicated! I wanted to do a large garden this year.. now I am having major second thoughts!!!!

I don't use straw around anything. i only mulch around my strawberry plants, keeps them cleaner and off the wet ground.

jennifer a large garden might discourage you, do you have alot of time to garden?

I put pine straw or grass clippings or hay around all my plants. I put down a layer, or several layers, of newspaper first then the straw on top. chokes out weeds and keeps soil moist. it also feeds the soil as it breaks down. i also use ground cover around my tomaotes and peppers. it is pourous so it doesnt sufficate the ground - no fungus. the black color helps warm the soil. some plants love the extra warmth.

There are rabbit hutches by the shed where I am renting and I have been given the okay to take all their poop. I am not sure if it can be used as is or if it is too fresh. I was thinking about getting it and some compost and my usual tomato stuff (bonemeal, epsom etc) and preparing tomato 'holes.' Then putting wall o waters on each hole to warm up the soil. Then I'll put the tomatoes in them next week. Does that sound ok or should I not use the top layer of fresh rabbit doo doo?
I also can take some rabbit doo and spread it where the peppers and melons will go.

Were cow poop farmers...but I dont know the rabbit deal. But I do know if you put lotza poop on tomatoes......You get all stalk and no tomatoes.Lotza leaves.

b

from what I've heard, all poop needs to 'mature'. let it sit before adding to plants.

That's too bad since I am getting it now. I can ask how old the bottom layer is, maybe that is safe. What if I took the rest and 'hot composted' it? I am going to be putting clear plastic on my home garden for the season to kill the junk and then planting bulbs and perennials in fall and next spring. What if I took most of the rabbit manure home and put it under the clear plastic? In a few weeks would it be not so 'hot' and ready to side dress my plants? Also if I delay using it for my tomatoes what if I spread the rabbit poo on the area where I will plant peppers and melons in 4 weeks?

Its been a number of years since I raised rabbits but their poo wasn't that big. I think you'd be fine if you spread out a thin layer now and tilled/plowed it under after 4 weeks of baking in the sun and getting rained on. I bet you wouldn't even be able to identify it anymore after a good tilling.

I think soilmover is absolutely right, 4 weeks and it should be fine, and as to side dressing, I can't imagine any problems if you used it fresh, just don't let it touch the foliage or stems, and go a little easy until it cures.

Ciao all-

For the record, tomatoes are not related to melons. Tomatoes belong to the family Solanacae, or Nightshade family that comprises tomatoes, tomatillos, eggplants, peppers, potatoes and some other poisonous things like deadly nightshade. Melons belong to the family Cucurbitaceae which comprises melons, cucumbers, summer and winter squashes, pumpkins, loofahs, and some other inedibles. If you're concerned with particularly nasty pests and diseases, when you rotate your crops, make sure you don't rotate something with another thing in the same family.

I took four wheel barrow loads of poop today. A lot of food was mixed in too. I spread out the poop- some old, some new, can't keep the little roundies separate- in the area where melons and peppers will go. At the end of the month I will till and put down weed blocker and plant the seedlings. I am still trying to figure out what manure to put in my tomato 'holes'. Maybe I'll just buy a few bags. Today I covered the tomato/basil/squash area with clear plastic. I will remove, add compost and soaker hoses and plant each seedling with manure, epsom, fertilizer and egg shells, then ring with wall-o-waters.
Things are progressing pretty well at my field. I'm starting to figure some things out. I put up bean supports today too. :wink:

DO not put poop in the tomato holes.........YOu will have all bushes and no tomatoes.......It happens to cow poop.......Been there

Poop is fine if you don't overdo it, but yeah, the nitrogen can cause the plants to grow like Jack and the Bean Stalk!
Tamara, the best thing you could do right now is take a soil sample to the closest extension agency and find out what your soil contains...it might be that you don't need to do a thing! Or you may be able to tell alot just by looking and feeling the soil...
If it's good, dark loam, or otherwise good soil, you may have everything you need right there already.

It's not dark and rich unfortunately. Everytime I go there I bring worms from home because there aren't any. The fields around my house are sandy, which really isn't that bad.
But you have definitely reminded me that I have to do a soil test! I almost forgot to. I have a kit in the garage I used at home.

It's still really cool here. I know they are saying the garden zones aren't what they used to be and that you can plant stuff for a warmer zone. But not here in the last couple years! It used to be like that a few years ago but now we have record late frosts in spring and record early frost in fall and record days below average temp! I remember planting out annual flowers like cosmos and nasturtium last year and losing them to frost and losing everything in fall to a very early freeze. So I am playing it safe this year. I will plant my maters with wall o waters and wait on everything else- even flowers- that I usually put in now.

Still to plant here:
tomatoes
haricot verts
corn
annual flowers and glads
then peppers, melons, cucumbers, squash, basil.
The farmers around here started planting field corn but it is too cold for it to germinate. I wonder what they are thinking! The soil temp is 50.

If your near farm fields check your PH level too, all the high nitrogen fertilzers they apply really drops the Ph-even in nearby land that isn't directly cropped. My father found this out last year. He's been liming to help get his garden back up in the 6.0-6.5, it was as low as 4.0 in some areas of his plot and even the weeds were not growing that well.

They've planted corn near us too, they like to push it early to get a better root depth before the high heat/dry summer months and also to not pollinate during those months-its all about the highest yield these days. Its scary how the hybrid/genitcally modified seed can germinate at such low temps.

My gardens are tilled waiting to go, its supposed to warm up tommorow with no rain I'm hoping to get some seeds in the ground too. I've only got lettuce in now.

Yeah it has been darn cool. Jonathan Yuhas says it will get into 70s by early next week. The jetstream will move up higher or something.
Hope you have a great day planting! I have to wait a week and just wish I could add a day to my week so I would have time.

[color:#CC0000]I disagree strongly .I been on the farm all my life.. Remember you moved out by the farm, the farm didnt move out by you...HINT.And there is no truth to your story........Why arent the farmers allowed to make any money.
If your boss offers a raise, will you say no no that is too much??/I doubt it?

I don't use poop in my gardens, just compost. Once in a while if it's raining really good I'll throw out some store bought fertilizer around the plants.

I really like your color coded chart Tamara. Fancy.

Yeah well I don't agree with your statement, my father didn't move to this area, he's lived on it his whole life,he now has all the property of the original family farm ever since my grandparents passed. Its rented to a neighbor who has been farming it for many years.

Lets not wreck Tamara's good post-email me off line.

Agreed. We sold our family farm but both sets of my grandparents had huge farms they inherited northeast of the twin cities. They made all their money by farming and that was sweet corn/veggies after grandpa died. I don't see what there would be to disagree with Soilmover's statement that farmers are in it for high yields. And since I am trying to go all organic you can't really mean to get me started on what the potato farmers do around here.
I am soil testing on Wednesday and will see what there is to see. So far everything is up and doing really well but the chickweed or whatever that is is up all over where I have been watering! It looks green all over from a distance. I am not sure how to weed it out of the carrot rows!

Double blast! I shoveled out a truckload of compost on my tomato/squash area and then the tiller wouldn't start! So I feel so late on my tomato planting and I wanted to be early (I have wall o waters to use).
If we can't get it going (it's the in laws') I'll have to rent a small one on Friday. At least today was the most beautiful day of the year! And I putzed around with other stuff.
Then since I couldn't till and plant what I intended to plant I tried a soil test but my capsules must have expired from being in the garage too long and they wouldn't work. So now I have to buy a new soil test if I want to check it.
The weeds are a major problem now. I need to till everything and then Preen and I have some fabric to put on too.
I need to figure out the mulching situation. I know there have been comments on the forum lately about mulching but it seems like everyone has a different opinion. I won't have too worry about wetness issues at all where I am at. I just need to keep the weeds down and the watering down. So what is okay with mulch and what with straw? Any ideas?