A Gardeners Forum Forums General Discussion The Plants and Flowers Forum Shrubs and Trees Four O'clock's & Sweet Williams

I need some help with understanding a plant that I've got growing in my yard. I didn't even know the name of it until just now (I finally located it on the web), it's called Mirabilis jalapa, or 4 o'clocks. It blooms early evening until morning. I bought tubers at the home and flower show in Cleveland earlier this year, but I'm still confused. I live in Northern Ohio, near Lake Erie. One web sight says that they could be lifted and stored in cool area until spring. It also went on to report about the seeds and how to plant them. Which way will give me the best results for next years planting? If I lift the root (which I want to move them anyway) when should I do this? Or if I use the seeds should I just plant them in the ground in spring or start them indoors early?

The other plant that has me confused is the sweet Williams I bought at a local nursery. I've checked out several web sights about this and one will say it's an annual, the next says a perennial and another says biannual only blooming every other year. They aren't producing many blooms for me and look more like leafy sticks than anything else. Any advise?

Thank you to anyone answering my post.

Hi Mary I can only tell you my experience with the four 0 clocks,
last year I had several colors of them , But one color in particular went crazy wild on me,, it was the first year for them for me,, I had no idea as they grow in the season they also grow underground producing more and more tubers,, My gosh this year they were popping up every where,, I was pretty consciences in harvesting the seeds but I just couldn't keep up with the yellow ones this year I decided to move the yellow ones "mother" tuber, Girllllll There were masses of tubers underground,, a couple of them as large as a large cucumber I ended up saturating the soil so I could easily dig down with my hand and pull up those tubers,, I got a Huge bucket full of them, I decided to take all of the yellow ones out,, I thought I got it all,, But at las I'm still pulling starters up,, The other colors produced tubers as well But not near like that yellow monster did,, Don't get me wrong,, It was a beautiful monster But gaaaaaaaalie I didn't know those tubers multiplied like that,, Now this year on the other hand the other colors I had are up and starting to bloom so at the end of this season,, I will dig up those tubers and leave one for next year,, Being in TX I don't have to dig them up,, Don't know about where you are if you Have to dig up to replant next year or not,, here is a picture of the monster yellow one,, so if your soil is well admended make sure your planting it in a space large enough to accomadate them , I amended my soil with home compost sheep manure,, quality potting soil and watered in with fish emulsion and feed them every month,,,,,,,,, geeeeeeeeez live and learn if I had a lot of land I wouldn't have cared




Sweet William/Dianthus,,
mine return every year,, I do cut them back after blooming and it promotes more blooms OR I dead head( after the spent bloom is browned and dry) and just drop back down to the soil to seed for next year, Depending on what kind you have,, so you have an actual name? This info may help you know better what you have,, ,,
and when you bought them were they already in bloom or did you start from seed??

The Sweet William (Dianthus barbatus) is gorgeous when in bloom. The early English writers used to tell us that the narrow-leaved varieties were called Sweet Johns and the broad-leaved sorts Sweet Williams. However, the sweetness and beauty of the flowers compensate for the lack of knowledge about their namesakes. The color scheme ranges from purest white to blackest red with an infinite number of variations and combinations of colors. The pink sort, known as Newport Pink, is a very desirable one with a distinct new color which florists call watermelon-pink or salmony-rose. The Sweet Williams grow from 1 foot to 1 1/2 feet tall and bloom all Summer. The flowers are arranged in large clusters of bloom and those which are ringed and spotted are very novel.

The Clove or Garden Pinks (D. plumarius) are low growing plants which bloom in early spring. The single and double flowers have fringed or jagged petals and are very fragrant. The colors range from white to bright scarlet and are very dainty, growing above a dense tuft of gray-green, grass-like leaves.

The Chinese Pinks (D. chinensis, var Heddewigii) is a biennial; that is, the seeds must be planted every year in order to have flowers the next. They also have a wide range of color and markings and are very popular. The double forms are especially attractive and the petals are often deeply and oddly cut. These sorts lack fragrance. They bloom .later than the others and last till frost-time.

Another interesting sort with flowers much like a Carnation is D. latifolius alrococcineus, the Everblooming Sweet William, which has intense crimson, double flowers. The plants grow 18 inches tall and are constantly in bloom in Summer.

Among the dwarf varieties are found the Maiden Pink (D. deltoides), a dwarf trailer with rosy-pink or white flowers which open from, June to August.

UTILIZE. The Pinks are very fragrant and free bloomers. They are good for cutting, and for the rock garden, together with the drawfer sorts. All are good for edgings or to use in borders.

GENERAL. All of the above Pinks, are of easy culture and except for the Sweet William and the Chinese Pinks, last for many years. All like a warm soil and one that will not become too wet at any time. The plants will die out quickly if the soil is not well drained. They should be divided often, else the plants will choke themselves out. The Sweet William should be treated as a biennial, sowing the seed each year. When not propagated each year the plants and flowers are not as large.

PROPAGATION. These plants often self-sow. They are all readily propagated from seeds sown in rich soil in April or May, although good sized plants may be grown from seed sown in Midsummer. The double sorts must be propagated from cuttings if they are to come true. Layering has proven the easiest and surest way of propagating the Garden Pinks (D. plumarins).

YOW!!...That's not exactly what I wanted to hear. I have 7 plants total...1 is white, 1 is white striped w/pink, 1 is white striped w/yellow that leaves 4 plants more...guess what color they are? Are you a winner? Did you guess yellow, then I guess you won! Your prize is 4 more yellow four o'clocks. I'll send them to you via UPS or something. I've been removing the seeds. I'm not sure if I'll be moving these or tossing them. One of the web sights I went to as IO was trying to research them said pretty much the same thing. That they are akin to weeds with a root system that will take over an area. Maybe I can find a spot for them and let them go wild. I have till next year to decide. Thanks for the feedback

noooooooooooooooo don't send here,, I have the pink striped,, the fushia and white with pink speckles,, They aren't as bad as that yellow one,, I least I don't think they are end of season will tell,, and uhhhhhhh your welcome,, :wink:

i'll take any and all i don't have any yet. now i know why granny had hers in a cemented area. they couldn't escape! i love 4 o'clocks. my sweet williams never took.

funny! I am also in texas.,,and can barely get my yellow ones to bloom! I have yellow and pink. pink seem to grow better for me??? but, I haven't had a prob with clearing out even the pink ones that came up where I didn't want them, but I have certainly heard of others that have! just beautiful blooms there grandprairy one! at any rate, in Ohio you shouldn't have the prob with getting rid of tubulars. I don't believe they are agressive that far north. as they bloom and make seed, save them. I don't know how long your growing season is, but the 4 oclocks do not have an extreamly long growing period. maybe start seeds indoors at first to get an idea of how they'll grow for you? you might find out later that it wasn't necessary, but at least your plants would have made more seed for the following year.
I know nothing about your sweet williams, sorry.

holy cow! a bunch of 4 o'clock haters...

OMG I wish I would have known that,I took many I mean Many of them to work,, gave some to a neighbor,, and some to the Lady that cuts my hair ,, Wellllll then get ready because I'm sure I'll send you tubers,, later this fall Would you believe All my 4 oclocks came from Gmom on a spring swap,, and last year Sheri sent the fushia ones,, they aren't very big,, and I love the color fushia I really believe it's how well I amended the soil because it was only on that side of the yard everything grew huge and lush last spring,,
*****
Cricket I don't hate them I just wasn't aware Having never grew them before how fast the tubers grew,, Just another learning experience,, as I see it,,

diane, you know i'll take them! and this fall will be much better than spring was for me anyway. dr. says i should be back in the garden by dec

I'm in zone 3/4 and my Sweet Williams come back every year. And those Maiden Pinks have reseeded themselves everywhere...

It's nice seeing all the helpful responses to my questions. Again, thank you! I still need some feedback about the sweet Williams though. Are you saying that the plant comes back from the seed of the flower or does the root system live until the next growing season? When I got these flowers, they were very tall, about 15" and in full bloom. When the original blooms faded I dead headed them (and threw them out). :-( Many of the original stems turned brown so I cut them way back to the base. Some didn't get any blooms in return and the others are getting blooms, but very sparsely. They are not large heads like they originally were. Should I be leaving what blooms I do remove on the ground to let them go to seed?

Hey and one more thing...how do you get the cute little smiley faces to come up in your notes? I JUST LOVE SMILEY FACES!!!

If you hit the 'Reply' button it will take you to a different set up for posting. there's an icon for all the add ins. Once you remember the codes you can just type them in and get the smiley faces.

My sweet williams come up just from the root itself. If you deadhead you'll get more blooms but if you want seeds then just let them die naturally. If you remove a bloom before it fully dies by itself then you won't get ripened seeds.

Gee thanks Joclyn, now I can do smilies everywhere! aint they cute? Just love it. Hey, about the Ohio winters not letting the 4'oclocks get to aggressive, I guess the weather doesn't matter. My daughter came over today and I told her about this website and what I found out about them overtaking a garden. Well, she told me that when her boyfriend bought his house about 5 years ago there were 4'oclocks in his yard. He removed them that first year and she says they still have a problem with them popping back up. I guess they'll keep growing no matter what. I decided on an area where I can transplant them and not have to worry about them. There is an overgrown area by our property line. I'll be cleaning out the brush next year and those will look great instead of the weeds that are there now. Thanks everyone for all your help!

I'm in zone 7 and both come back every year.