A Gardeners Forum Forums General Discussion Plant pests and problems 4 inches of rain-a problem?

I applied Grub killer in the flower garden and it said on the bag to spread granules evenly within 24 hours before rain. Ugh! I did, but it rained 4 inches! Now do I need to do it all over again?? I don't want to possibly hurt the flowers by applying again so if anyone knows if this is usually ok or if the grub killer probably worked even though my garden is about to drown, please give me input. (I haven't gotten gutters yet on house b/c this is only my 2nd spring in this house, so I was going to get them soon with some of our tax $money$.)Bag says one application last all season, but not how soon is too soon to re-apply. I am going to re-apply unless someone says STOP! :o Thanks!

Yep. It's Oklahoma. Not used to so much rain. Ugh! Now I wasted my money, it seems. I will have to get more grub killer to do it again, b/c now there's not going to be enough for us to get the lawn done. I was afraid of that, but I did not know I was gonna need Noah's arch in my garden!!!! I actually want to get a border too, but I am afraid I will hender good drainage.

I could still do that. I don't have anything along the back b/c when it does rain the downfall from roof would beat up my plants. So I was going to fill that in this year after the gutters go up and I would rather do it now while no plants live there, huh? I should get a pic tomarrow of my garden and post it so ya'll can see. I have an L shaped garden on the front of house along front wall and side of front porch. Edged in Liriope Big Blue, then dianthus in next row behind it. ( not sure of spelling)Then some dahlias, day lilies, calla lilies, a mule's ear a friend gave me, and lamb's ear so my daughter has something fun to touch and ok to pick. One Rhododenreon and I have a variegated weigela on the way! I think I may do bushes of some sort or a tall flower like zinnias on the back. I'll get my pic taken tomarrow! I gotta get to bed!

Just wondering what type of grub killer you used in your garden. There are two types, one is a preventative, and the other is a curative application. The preventative is only effective for lawn applications, as far as the grubs are concerned. The curative should still work as long as the area did not flood quickly and wash away the application before it had a chance to seep into the ground.

Grub-ex. Season long grub killer.

Here are my pictures. It seems empty, but I am not done yet!

Overuse of high nitrogen fertilisers encourages weakened grass and lawn grubs IMHO. If you toughen the grass up a bit, there won't be any grubs to poison. The downstream environment will thank you for it i'm sure.

I don't use fertilizers. Last year when I moved here, I started my garden. I scalped the lawn to form it's shape and mixed in manure and compost with the dirt. The hibiscus and Rhododendreon were placed in peat moss for more acidic soil to live in, also the Hydrengea on the porch. Is this possibly where the high nitrogen may have come from? I have only recently added plant food to any of them. & How do I toughen the grass up?

Your grass looks good Johnna. You've done a good job of preparing the soil obviously. (I can't even see any lawn grub damage.) I'd say the nutrient is coming from the manures and compost and there's not much you can do about that but that's OK. It'll be used up in a season or two and the soil will remain a good base for your lawn. You might try mowing the lawn a bit longer. A light dressing of sulphate of potash may balance things a bit but i'd check with someone more knowledgable on that. It's what i'd do though.
I just looked thru your fotos and noticed the rhododendron is a bit brown around the leaf margins. This can be from a potassium deficiency. Potash is also what builds cell walls in plants and in effect 'toughens' them up. I wonder if there's a connection between this lack of potassium and the grass being attacked.
BTW. A hessian sack laid on the lawn overnight will have the grubs come to surface underneath it. You can get a good look at them this way. Soapy water is also said to bring them to the surface and the birds can have a feed.

Grubs in their beetle form are actually attracted to nice green lush lawns, to lay their eggs, which will in turn become grubs. I think they do that to make sure that their young have enough nice tender grass roots to eat.
Fertilizing a lawn should not really make any difference in controling the grubs, other then you may find yourself more of a target.


Johnna, I am not sure of what grass types you have down there in OK I am used to the cooler season grasses of the north. My bet for you would be to have a company like Lawn Dr come out and give you a free evaluation, and see what they say it needs. they are a pretty good company and generally know what they are talking about. :)

Just to clarify what i said against what Mike said Johnna. As we both suggest, fertilising may encourage the grubs. It is the nitrogen in the ferts which do this. An imbalance can cause lush, sappy growth which pests just love. As you say, you haven't fertilised but the soil preparation might be higher in Nitrogen. So in effect, it is well fertilised. The potassium i refer to is one of the 3 major components in fertilisers, and it serves to build up the plants resistance and make them less palatable to pests, amongst other things. I'm a firm believer in prevention being better than cure. However, as Mike said, it might be best to get an expert in to check your soil. If they tell you to spread more poisons though, then i bet they will also offer to supply them and spread them for you too. For me, i'd go with some soapy water to bring the grubs to the surface and a bit of potash to strengthen the lawn against further attacks. Cheaper, more long term benefits and better for the environment.

Is dish soap ok? BTW, thank ya'll a whole bunch!

Lots of Bermuda grass used here in Oklahoma b/c it can survive our rainless summers.

I have looked into this. I have also come up with several answers. Still not sure which one is right. There's a thread started about that one too, called "My poor Rhododenreon". I have heard salt burn, freeze damamge, fungus and now paotassium deficiency and I dunno which one it is...I had to pick a plant that was "needy"! Thank goodness I have good peeps to turn to about it, huh? Well, there's a fungus looking white stuff on the leaves. Kinda like tiny speckles. And of course the edges are brown on new and old leaves. But, it is trying to flower. I bought a fungucide: multi-purpose and says it's for use on Rhododendreons as soon as the flowers have some color on them, which mine don't yet. Also bought Rhodendreon plant food and have given it once last week.

Longy, we keep disagreeing on things lately...lol but we do agree on some things.

IMHO The grubs will work their way to the surface naturally anyway.

Their cycle is:
Beetles laying eggs in the late summer.

Eggs hatch and eat grass roots and kill off areas to lawn.
(this is the stage where the critters like coons and skunks come in and roto till your lawn for you, searching for a meal out of the grubs.

The surviving grubs dig deep in the early fall and winter over in a dormant stage.

Mid spring comes and the grubs start working their way back up to the surface. Once there they start eating the roots again and become a smorgasbord for the critters topside.

The morph into beetles and fly around eating peoples roses and shrubs and clog up pool filters. They then become sexually mature, and do the nasty, and in the late summer they start the process all over again.
As far as the company telling you that you need to treat your lawn for the grubs, you already know that part of it. I was meaning that having a better idea of what exactly your lawn needs to flourish as far as fertilizers go. The 3 main fertilizers are N nitrogen P phosphorous and K potassium. On any good package of fert this will always be represented by 3 numbers such as 18-24-12 (which is a common starter fert for lawns)
The N contributes to the top growth of the plant. it will green it up and make it grow faster and thicker.
P contributes to flowering and helps newly started plants get a boost by enabling quick root growth.
K contributes mostly to root growth and repairing damaged tissue.

Another way to find out what exactly your lawn needs to by taking some soil samples to your local Coop extension office. The best way to take samples is to gather up small samples from many different locations in the lawn and mix them together in paper sack. If you have 2 totally distinctly different areas of lawn such as a very shady back yard and a well lit front, you can make 2 different samples from the 2 locations.
The soil analysis should tell you exactly how much of what ever your lawn needs and if it has an over abundance of anything. It will also give you a pH reading and let your know if you should amend the soil in that respect as well. When taking the samples remove and large pieces of wood or other debris, but if there are small pieces of rotting twigs it is okay to leave that.
Keep in mind that in some soils P will build up on its own over the winter, so a spring testing may read high, where a test taken in the fall will show it as being low.

I added brand new pics to my photobucket today. Check 'em out, K?

Are your rhodies planted in full sun? That looks like it may be scorched a bit. They like filtered light and brightly lit areas without the direct sun. Some varieties can tolerate full sun but when planted in a area such as in front of a foundation they usually take a beating since they get blasted, from all angles
Kinda hard to tell exactly what is going on from a picture though. There are tons of possibilities, Longy could be right with the K deficiency, or it could be a fungal attack or they are even prone to soil born problems such as vascular diseases. The last one is pretty easily told by the sideways rolling of the leaves, in its later stages.

It is on the east side of my house and is shaded by 2pm. Is that too late? It's a Mrs. Charles Pearson Rhododendron. Now that got out the tag, it says Semi-shade. Ugh. I hate this. I really don't know what I will do now. Maybe after all this...I just have to transplant it. *Still concered about the white speckles though*

I don't have anywhere I want to put it yet, I didn't want to put such a gorgeous plant in the back yard behind private fencing. But the North side of the house is shadier back there and I don't have any other options.

Yeah but that's OK. It's good to debate. You obviously have professional experience and i'm just a backyarder. My main points here, as in all posts, are that i prefer to reduce chemical use by growing healthy plants in the first place.
I believe that weak plants are attacked first, whether it be from pests or diseases. So good soil makes for healthy, problem free plants. Too often people have a problem with a plant and go straight for the sprays or whatever. I reckon this is generally a quick fix which potentially causes more long term problems, such as, for example, pesticide use which is non-specific, blowing away beneficial insects during application thus creating ideal conditions for the pest to proliferate next time.
In the case of these lawn grubs, (and i don't actually see any damage in the fotos) i think it's because the lawn is so lush and green that the insect was attracted to it to lay its eggs in the first place. It just seems to happen less on tougher, less lush lawns.(Wow. Alliteration or what?)
Anyway, i still do enjoy reading your posts and your knowledge is more than appreciated. As is the banter. :-) In the end, it's good if the gardener posting the question has options and understands both sides of an argument. Then they can make their own informed choices.

You've both been great! Thanks!

I am more worried about the garden than the lawn.

When i look at your garden soil Johnna, i see what appears to be pine bark and just dirt. It doesn't look real good. I'd be doing some serious work on the soil if it were mine. I imagine the bark is leftover mulch that has been busted into the soil, which wasn't real good in the first place. Is that about right?

Manure & Cotton Bur compost is mixed into the Oklahoma clay that I so unavoidedly ended up with for soil and peat moss specifically just where the Rhododendron and Hibiscus are for acidity. I did this last summer. I added about 2-3 inches. I thought that was pretty good.

OK.It's difficult to tell from the fotos. What's all the woodchip lookin stuff? 'Cause it sure doesn't look composted down.

Hello Johnna:
Three cheers to Plant Doc for recommending a soil test. That is the single most important thing a gardener can do. The saying is "Don't Guess, Soil Test". The extention service is the place to do the test. Ask them what other tests they would recommend. Separate tests for the lawn and garden bed might be needed. Ask about this. Since you mention water issues request a list of native plants.

I am curious as to your grub issue. Did you have a grub problem last year with the lawn and flower bed or is that a yearly treatment requirement for your area? A few grubs here and there in a lawn are normal.

When gutters are installed you will want to build soil up to the top of the foundation wall as another poster has suggested. Soil will be deepest at the foundation then slope down till its even with the bed edge. This may require raising some of the plants. Otherwise, every time it rains plants will sit in water. Right now use a spade to dig a soil trench all along your bed so water has a place to go. The photos were a great assist.

It is old mulch. A lot got washed away with rain, but I finally got the guttering up now.

Yep. Grubs are all over. I find ten or so every time I plant some flowers or weed the garden. And June bugs are very heavy in summer. They're ridiculous, all over the place! The porch gets lots of them flyin' around. You get pinged in the head with a Kamikaze one every time you walk up to the door at night!

Thanks for mentioning that I should raise the garden up to foundation. I will try to do that. What should I use? Just soil? Or more manure and compost?

If plants will go in along the foundation start with a clean fill about half way up then use an enriched soil to finish. If you will not plant anything along the foundation use fill and a top layer of mulch. Contact a landscape nursery to see what they have available. Beyond the foundation use a soil mixture. My nursery has a mixture of composted material sold by the yard, bag or bucket.

Back again to your county extension office. Check with them on your grub issue. OSU may have info on their website. Didn't the product recommend watering the product in after its application?

Which forum has your Rhodo post? Couldn't locate it.

Yikes! To June Beetles. Their sound is unnerving.The Plains States seem to get more than their fair share of jumping and flying insects.

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Aha. Yes i thought so. I think Pine mulch would have acidified your soil but as Herbalyn said. Get a test. Then you know exactly what you need. I thought just the look of it suggested more mulch than soil and building up the soil with compost or other organic matter will certainly improve it. The plants do look like they're doing it a bit tough and you can put on ferts and water and anything else but if the soil is rubbish then it's a waste of time.

It was on the old Forum site. I think it was called My poor Rhododenron.

Cool. I will try to do that soon before all my newer plants get too big and harder to move. You have been a lifesaver, guys. I am 25 and this last summer was first garden experience. My mom has a green thumb but she lives in Tulsa and that's 2 hours away so she doesn't get to help me much. I think just the guttering is going to be a big help b/c not having it held me back so much. I couldn't put any plants along the porch or wall b/c the trench the rain coming off the roof dug in the garden and it looked unfinished. I need more soil for sure to build it up and I will get that & a soil test done and post more pics. Keep the advice coming and I appreciate it very, very much. ;)

Yeah. That's the reason I started this thread. I applied it right before we got 4" of rain. It actually says to apply with in 24 hours of rain.

[img][IMG]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m220/Johnna81/plants%20march%2007/hostasandrhodo.jpg[/img][/img]

I am just about sick of this poor thing. I have not tried my fungaside yet. It says to wait until the blooms are getting color. But I may want to move it to the North side of the house in back yard to save it from the sun.????????????

***********Moved to new thread about my Rhodie************

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