A Gardeners Forum Forums General Discussion The Food Garden Forum The Tomato Forum Help me to do it right this time.

The season is upon us to start our tomato seedlings. I do it every year around this time, and every year they turn out the same. By the time those little seedlings are ready to go into the garden (end of May) they are tall, lanky, spindly funny looking plants and I'm embarrassed when people see them, 1 foot of stem and a few leaves on the very top. How do the greenhouses get such thick stems on theirs? How do they keep them from growing tall and spindly? I'm not a greenhouse but there must be a secret to make homegrown tomato plants look better than mine.
LOL, as bad as mine look I always get tomato's on them and the stems do thicken up once they are in the ground still it would make me happy to grow some nice indoor plants.

Thanx guys...

Do you use florescent lighting or just depend on sunlight? You have more control with the lighting and if you are like me, in my whole house, I only have one window that is south facing. It sounds like maybe you need more light, close to the seedlings.

I have my seedlings in a south window above the sink. The south window is the only window that has any sunlight, my other windows have no sun. My picture window faces north. I do have florescent lighting above the sink but I think it is too far up so the little plants try to reach up to the light. I don't use this lighting very often.

If possible a few cheap shop lights would help you. Then keep them about 1-2" above the plants for 16-18 hours a day. I use the 4 footers but you can buy them shorter. I have a light stand myself with 3 shelves but at first just hung them from the ceiling of a room in the utility area. It isn't mandatory but does make growing nice plants easier. The greenhouses have all the light they need so no need for the lights. Jay

Mine have grown to 2 inches high and look healthy for now. I will take good care of them since only 6 came out. Oh well, every year I have too many and I don't know where to plant them so I give some to the neighbours.

thick stems can be gotten if when you transplant them the first time to bury them all the way up to the first set of true leaves. And of course if when you take them outside you plant them sideways. I got very thick stems that way.

Thanks, but how do you plant a tomato sideways, do you mean at a slant?

Yep, you can plant them at a slant. Don't worry if the tops aren't pointing up when you plant, they'll bend themselves towards the light.

I think it is called "trench" planting. I wait until the plant is at least 12 inches tall and then harden it off. I dig a trench about that long and lay the plant in it. Leaving only the top sets of branches above ground I then fill in the trench. I get really thick stems that way.

I also use 50% compost for the tomatoes and they love it.

And I water from the bottom being careful that no dirt gets splashed up on the leaves.

Another thing I have learned to do is to dip my seeds in a 10% bleach solution before planting them. That way if they are carrying any diseases that kills them so my soil doesn't become contaminated.

You can also just bury them deep~straight down. I've done that a few times as well. Any part of the tomatoe plant will grow roots when covered in soil.

One drawback there is if the soil is cool deeper. Tomatoes like warm soil. There's also more air in the top 8" of soil. Some of the best growers just plant the whole stem, though, as much as 12" or so deep...I haven't tried it for myself yet. It definitely won't hurt the plant to bury the stems deeper, I just worry that it could delay fruit production by a week or 2. Either way, it's good to pick off some of the lower leaves and bury the stem. Like tamara said, you'll get roots from all the buried part. Not many vegetables benefit from having their stems buried.

that is what my Dad has taught me to do. the cold soil is not a problem here---But then I wait until past my frost date to plant. it does make for a sturdier plant, for sure.-and I cannot say I noticed any slowness of fruit.

dad does not wait until after the frost date--but he lives out in the garden this time of year & has many mini greenhouses made from the gallon milk jugs that he puts on & takes off as needed. he has a huge garden with multiple beds & sections.

not to mention a heated greenhouse------

I transplanted mine about 4-5 days ago. I buried them right up to the first set of leaves. They are kind of just sitting there not doing anything but then again 5 days wasn't that long ago.
I've never done trench planting before but it does sound like something worth trying especially on a not so stable looking tomato plant.

You'll see some serious growth soon, Daisy. Hah, isn't it great that gardening season is here!

You've transplanted in CA and here is KS it will be another 3 weeks at least. Doesn't seem fair. Yes like Dave said they will take off. You may have a little transplant shock and also they will grow roots. I've tried all sizes and have decided that I get best results setting out 6-8 plants. I know a truck gardener who transplants when they have two true sets of leaves and just starting the 3rd. Basically 4-6". Also talking about leggy plants if you keep them cooler they will tend to keep stockier. I use post holed diggers and plant mine in hole. If they are short straight up and if tall and lanky at an angle. I also mix some horse manure and compost with any additives I'm using that year. I've used Epsom salt,a pinch of bonemeal and a sprinkle of tomato food in the past. I have my soil built up now where I don't add much. Just the manure and a little alfalfa/manure compost. And then as they grow I fill in the dirt till it is withing an inch of ground level. I fill this in with mulch. And water with a drip hose. If planting early yes the soil temp. can slow down growth a little. I usually put plastic buckets around mine for the first 3-4 weeks and this helps warm it up. Two years ago had some out and was gone and it got 28 degrees and didn't lose a one. Had put some straw in the buckets up to the top of the plant. I also slant the taller ones. So figure the average depth would be 6" and very seldom over 8". Just some of my thoughts and methods. Hope you have great results with yours. JD

Yah Dave, it's great that spring and planting season is here. Boy, all the trouble we go through for a few months of warm weather, but yes, just loving it, and if it wasn't for the gardening, spring and summer wouldn't be the same. Like who doesn't get excited with the first red tomato or the first sign of a flower showing that a tiny little pepper is starting to peek through. I let everyone know of my accomplishment.

JD thanks for the advice. I had to transplant into bigger containers because the ones they were in were too small and caused the growth to go leggy and tall. I buried them down to their first leaves. They have about 6 leaves now. Around here it isn't safe to plant tomatoes outdoors until the 3rd to 4th week of May as there is too much risk of frost. This happened to me before where I set them out too soon and lost most of them.
Thanks for the fertilizing advice. I wasn't sure if it was safe to be giving little tomato plantings food? When transplanting outdoors a couple of years ago, I added cow or sheep manure mixed with compost into the planting hole and it turned my tomato leaves almost black. They sat there for a couple of weeks and looked like they were goners but then came around and started to grow. I did end up with a tomato plant that produced a lot of fruit that year. However, I did learn a lesson from this, I over fertilized so I know now to be careful and somewhat skimpy on the food.
I do wonder if I gave the little guys just a little pinch of plant food in the water if that would be okay? Forgive me, I am still learning.

manure needs to be aged a year before it is used and the best mix for tomatoes that I've found is 1/2 compost to 1/2 garden soil. They loved it. Really loved it. The epsoms salt is a very good idea since it will help the plants to not get bottom end rot. I add powdered egg shells to my compost to make sure I have enough calcium in my soil that I don't get the BER. I also add fireplace ash that I have watered and sifted the floaters out of to my compost. That's the potash component. My compost is made up of grass and leaves and it makes some of it's own potash but I always add about a cup full per 3x3x3 pile.

I spray my seedlings in the non-fertilizer commercial potting mixes I use most of with a fish/seaweed foliar spray from Neptune starting around 3 weeks of age. I usually let the plants tell me. I have plants that old this year and haven't sprayed yet. Probably will by the end of this week after I pot up a bunch. Now when using MG and some like them they have food added to many of them and usually follow their instruction unless the plants tell me they need something.
And yes most manure needs some age. I have used a mix of old and new horse manure for years without ever hurting anything and good results. The main thing isn't overdoing it. With cow manure especially the feedlot type it needs to be aged and use less than horse. Of course after 40 plus years I hope I've learned a little about what and how much to use. JME. JD

Last year I had tomatoes in my greenhouse and they got blossom-end-rot, some one told me to give them tums once a week and sure enough the BER was cured. I'm going to use epson salt this year too.

TK do you just mix it with the soil and how often do you give it?

I use it aged......I rots well here if left alone.

Hi, just a quick question, just how much epsoms salt do you use per plant? Do you put it straight in the bottom of the planting hole or we talking about a sprinkle while they are still preemies?

I used to use a baby spoon full sprinkled about an inch away from the base of the plant. Not really sure on what the 'real' exact amount is.

Asha, we are not allowed to post info of other garden sites.

OOOPS! Maybe I should have paraphrased? Thanks Tamara.

Will try to post a picture of my poor top watered plants later today. This year out of 300 plants not one case of damp off. Last year out of 450 not one case. The year before bottom watering 20 out of 100. It boils down to what works for you and what methods you use. I only bottom water toward the end when they are 6" or more. This works well for me. And my point is that neither way is right or wrong. Just what works for that person. I use a nice commercial mix that drains well with holes in the bottom and any excess drains off. The greenhouses here I know of top water. Just my experience after 40 plus years. JD

I top water mine, too, right up until they go in the ground...while they're still seedlings, I don't even worry too much if I wet the leaves a little, but I try not to wet the leaves or get any splash on the leaves once they're in the garden. Mulch is a must once they're planted out, to keep soil-borne diseases from getting splashed onto the leaves.

Dave I agree 100%. In fact I'm already mulching my tomoto area. Just leave circles about 24" in diameter. After I plant I water my drip hose. And I put the mulch over it. For me mulching eliminates almost all weeding and really improves the soil. I just turned the alfalfa mulch and manure under about 4" this year. Trying not to disturb the soil anymore than I had too. My soil is sandy so I don't need to break it up much and this way it seems the worms don't mind as much. But till I transplant to soil I water from the top and never had any problems. JD

I may get a bail or 2 of alfalfa to mulch with this year. I don't have enough leaves to go around. The alfalfa would sure make great compost to turn under this fall! There's a lot of mulch in just one bail, and weed seed wouldn't be a problem.

I agree with you JD, what works for one may not work for someone else but I sure love to read all that you're doing. Sometimes we can get good info' and it's helpful.

Dave it should work well. Last spring I bought three big 4x4x8 square alfalfa bales to feed the horses.They weighed close to a ton a piece. I didn't have the right equipment to handle them and two busted bad unloading and trying to move them. So I used at least a third of two of them on the garden. It made a mulch at least 3" deep. Worked that into the top 4" in the winter. Really has helped the soil. Also added 2" of manure when I did. It looks nice. JD

I use potting soil as mulch.

My little tomato plants got to have their first outing today. I put them in a box with plastic over top (a minature little greenhouse.) I'm hoping that this will help them to become stronger as they seem rather stuck sitting in the house doing nothing...lol something like me.

That could be alright, since it dries our quickly, but weeds could still grow in it. Plus, it's a little pricey. If you have a grasscatcher for your mower, you could dump the clippings on a piece of plastic or something and let them dry...that's what lot's of people do, it makes a good mulch, and it's free!

A ton you say: wow, JD how's your back?

I was trying to move them with forks on the back of a flatbed. When they fell apart and it rained and ruined a lot of it. I moved all that wheel barrow at a time. I figure I applied at least a ton in not more. But move it probably 75-100 pounds at a time. Took a while but was very good for the garden. JD

The potting soil was on sale.

Oh Oh, even though they were protected it looks like my tomato plants suffered the result of hardening off. They are still alive but look rather sickly. Some leaves dropped and others curled, so back in the house they go, awaiting warmer weather.
Also I don't know if it's the soil I used or what but they seem to be just sitting there and not growing.

At this point they need help. What can I give them if anything?

If it's cold give them some warm water(70 degrees)

Daisy, without seeing a picture, it's hard to say if you did anything wrong...Plants that are hardened off have to suffer some wind and sun, and sometimes damage from either...
Please don't try to use fertilizer or anything to "help" them, right now they don't need any boost to their growth, that will only make them more tender when you do try to harden them off...and it may be that they should be outside for at least a few hours everyday now, anyway.
Without seeing them, I can't say for sure, but there will be some changes as they toughen up for planting, they won't be as pretty and perfect as they were indoors if there is wind, etc., but at some point they have to go through that before planting out.

Ohhhh! I just went back and read your previous post...the box with plastic over it could easily have gotten too hot. It's a good idea, but you will have to keep a close eye on the plants, they can burn up in no time. It could easily get to 100 degrees F in there even on a cool day.